Riots, instability spread as food prices skyrocket

[justen]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/americas/04/14/world.food.crisis/index.html
I think the world needs to rewind a few years and end ethanol production. Farmers are complaining it cost to much to feed cows corn, so while cows are still pretty young they get shipped to the slaughter house. I see no benefit in ethanol. Like all the articles I've read about E85 or ethanol, The carbon released from burning it is worse the gasoline fossil fuel carbon. And catalytic converters don't do much with burnt ethanol. I think ethanol is a dumb idea. Unless it was used for a very limited amount of vehicles. Couple golf courses or something. Many products at the grocery store has corn, or corn starch, or corn syrup. It all adds to the price tag. I also read that this was the first year the united states had to import wheat. That's really bad. That was a big seller for America and across seas. We used to have surplus of wheat.

Either way you look at it, your paying for fuel twice. Diesel to truck to the store. And gas at the pump.

Ethanol, You pay for it at the pump, you pay for it at the store (food), You pay for it to feed animals, you pay for it one way or the other. If semi's ran on ethanol then the bill would be huge lol.

For a while when the idea was new and corn was cheap, people was buying corns stoves here because you could buy a bag of corn cheap to heat the house. Now in our local paper there is like 50 used one's people are trying to get rid of because it costs way more then electric, fuel oil, or propane.

[justen]

Part of the problem is, some rich people got their fingers in ethanol and won't back out of it. They believe it will make them millions more. Which is probably right. But they don't have to worry about fuel prices and groceries. They got enough to buy the entire store and building. It takes 1.3 gallons of fossil fuel to create 1.0 gallons of ethanol. With that said, what a waste of corn. I like to see the world go green, but ethanol is not it.

I run veggie oil. And it may not be the answer to everything. But at least I am using up wasted vegetable oil, that probably would end up in some garbage dump. But I only use that when the local restaurants around here have some on hand to give away. So there's no demand there. When I run out. I run plain jane diesel fuel.

[Wheel]

You are right. We are burning up our food supply and it don't get any dumber than that. It makes no since that the United States should have to import wheat. What happen to being the bread basket of the world? It cost more than a dollar to make a dollars worth of fuel from corn.

With the young cows being shipped off to slaughter, soon the price of beef will go sky high.

Where is this imported wheat coming from? I hope not china. Remember the dog food deal we just had? The whole thing is just stupid and just another example of this great country being sold out before our eyes.

I haven't ever tried to run vegetable oil in my truck but with diesel now costing $3.95.9 a gallon, (over $4.00 at some stations) I may need to think about trying it. I put $100.00 worth of fuel in my truck and got 3/4 of a tank. The last time I filled it up cost $130.00. I'm glad warmer weather is here, I can fill up my bike for $16.00. Of course, I use to fill her up with $3.00.

I'm glad you started this thread. Maybe when enough folks get ticked off enough, we can vote all the bums out. The bad thing is, none of the three running for president are gonna do anything to help things. I think Mit would have been the best one to pick but he aint around anymore.

[dougbfresh]

As long as people are making as many babies as they feel like and driving gas guzzling trucks/SUV's it's only going to get worse. Does not matter who's president-he has little or no control over oil prices. AND, we eat too much beef in this country anyway-less cows, less methane and maybe fewer Obese Americans.

[Wheel]

The United States has plenty of oil but the boneheads in Washington will not let anyone drill for it. There is millions of barrels of oil to be had in Alaska but we can't drill there. There is oil off the east and west coast but we can't drill there. There is oil in the Gulf of Mexico but we can't drill there either. Of course china and cuba is drilling in the Gulf now. I wonder who will drill for oil in the safest manner and with the least chance of a spill? Would it be The United States with their rules and safety checks, or China and Cuba?
Hummm.... United States.....China......Who would work more carefully? Who would work harder to contain a spill if one should happen?
Hummm.....another tuff question.....Who would want to protect our beaches from an oil spill? China? Cuba? United States? Who would it be?

I'm not gonna start driving a sputnic to save gas. I like the protection that my F350 and SUV gives my family. Plus at 6'4", I need leg room.

I'm also not worried about cow farts. If its a big problem, we can get some of the illegals to stand behind them with a lighter. I also enjoy steak.

My remark about the election for president was geared mostly towards all the problems we have in this country today.

[carsandcycles]

GM and some other companies are working on a cellulose/ethanol producing method. This would use non food stock source for the production and may show promise. Alternative fuel sources will have to be developed. Smart use of what we have should also be a priority (there's way too much waste going on out there).

[dougbfresh]

Anybody know where we get most of our imported oil??? Canada!!

Big trucks and SUV's are not safer than some cars-it's a PROVEN fact and I doubt many people need an F350 just "for the legroom". Doubt the truck has curtain airbags to REAL protection for the occupants. There are many US sedans that get great crash ratings and 25+ mpg, have great legroom and get 4 star crash ratings.

Man as a species was never designed to eat meat anyway-we have no claws, we can't run and we don't have the teeth for ripping flesh. Cows and pigs add GREATLY to pollution problems (also a FACT). Hey, I eat some meat but not much-certainly not like my parents did at EVERY meal. All this stuff adds up, people say "I'm going to do whatever I want" are ignoring the FACTS then cry at $4+ gas and crazy weather. Ethenol is a joke, Hydrogen is the only real answer but that will take more power generation NOT based on fossil fuel to make the hydrogen from water. The one thing Washington can do is get the Nuclear repository on line and more new reactors and quit spending money in the Middle East and spend it on a Hydrogen infrastructure NOW.

Once the middle east sees stuff like this-oil WILL plummet in price (so will food).
Think I'll take the motorcycle to work today.

[Wheel]

I doubt many people need an F350 just "for the legroom". There are many US sedans that get great crash ratings and 25+ mpg, have great legroom and get 4 star crash ratings.
Myself, I bought a F350 because I wanted a F350 crewcab truck with an eight foot bed. If I wanted a sedan, I would have bought one. I wanted a F350, I paid for the truck, and I pay for the fuel so I guess that would make it my business.

Maybe man wasn't built to be a meat eater. But he also wasn't made to work a night shift or he would be able to see in the dark. Man was made to go to sleep at dark and get up at light. There is a chemical reaction that occurs in the brain when you sleep at night. This does not take place when you sleep during the day light hours. Also man use to not live more than about 20 some years or he would get more than 2 sets of teeth. Of course the Bible says he should live to be 70 years. Eat meat or don't eat meat, you still die.

I'm not here to get in a peeing match with anyone and I will not reply again to this part of this thread so feel free to get the last word.

Back to the main point of this thread, It is just plan stupid to burn our food supply on a fuel that is not the answer. We have many untapped oil reserves that could be used while working on a different fuel.

[dougbfresh]

Without more refineries it wouldn't make any difference anyway. Most all the US refineries are running full out most of the time. Maybe less food will mean less people eventually-problem might solve itself.

[justen]

Not sure where we are getting wheat from but heard it from the news. Wouldn't surprise me it was china like everything else. Even rice went up in price lol. If they could make ethanol using something other then corn that would be great. But I did some reading on that. And if USA wanted to go completely on ethanol. They would need to level south america and plant corn border to border. Thats alot of corn. I feel bad for farmers I'm sure they are loosing money somehow. They probably make up for it a little selling corn, but live stock is going to hurt them. Beef and what else is I'm sure going to get expensive. Maybe eatting soyburgers soon here lol. The other day Toyota had a big advertisement on tv about a truck that you plug in overnight and drive completely on battery. And that all sounds great. But how long is that battery going to last when I get my 5th wheel camper on it. Probably have to camp out at the end of the block, because thats where the battery died lol.

[Wheel]

Justen, Did you have to do anything with your fuel filter or anything else to run vegetable oil. I caught the tail end of some show on an off beat satellite station where some hippie looking folks had modified their old VW van to run on vegetable oil. About the time I started watching they was driving away. As the old hippie couple watched them ride off into the sunset, one of them said,"They're taking a piece of us with them."

I'm surprised that someone hasn't started selling use vegetable oil. Is your mileage much different with vegetable oil than with diesel?

[Saltmine]

I suppose it's all natural selection....Millions of years ago, the dinosaurs ruled the earth...They were huge. But, eventually, they all died off, allowing smaller, more efficient creatures to become dominant. This is what's happening with automobiles and trucks....now.

Evolve or die...

[carsandcycles]

The funny part is that's there's no shortage; anybody see any rationing, anybody see any long lines, anybody see a black market. Queer there now, ain't it? It's hard to prove price fixing or collusion (but I haven't completely exited those thoughts from my mind).

How do they know that the price is going to reach $4.00 (this Summer), I'll tell you, because they may have already set the price, and have just pre-prepared the public that it's going to happen. (I do admit it's partly our fault because, I sure haven't seen much conservation going on around here.)

[Porcupine]

Doug alluded to MORE refineries. it's no secret it not a cost issue but rather the opposite. If they built more refiners they could produce more and keep the prices down. But by having fewer refineries the pump price is artifically kept up.
The media puts such a B.S twist on everything Joe Average looses more touch with the truth. The media is fed info from governments sources in conjunctio with oil executives. A paid infommercial if you will. The lies are drummed up and pump out to the public. It's only a passifier so to let us believe that crude is in short supply. Do you ever see or hear a oil executive on media explaining the istuation?
I did once and his explanation was so ludicrous that he made himself look stupid.
The government and oil executive will give the reporter the very question they want asked and then answer his own question.

The biggest game in town and we have no choice or do without.

Make note of the next trick and you heard it here first.

They will claim that because everyone is turning to fuel efficient vehicles that their profits have tumbled and they need to raise prices AGAIN to regain profits the lost. A great marketing ploy packed with lies and B.S

[justen]

Basically all I needed was hoses that could handle veggie oil and some solenoids to control between diesel and veggie oil. Otherwise all my filters are the same. There is something in veggie oil that can corride your typical hoses. So you put on hoses that are made for diesel or veggie oil. The conversion isn't that hard to do. Placing the tank and running a hose and running a few wires into the cab is the hardest work. But now I am setup for bio-diesel as well. So We'll see how it goes down the road. On straight veggie oil I get 1 mpg less then I would with plain diesel. For getting it free from restaurant's I can't complain. I have a garden hose, with a whole house water filter thats 2 bucks a pop and a 40 dollar little 12 volt pump I use to get my veggy oil from the restaurant barrel to fill up my tank in the truck box. It filters it out really good. Takes a little longer then filling up at a gas station but it's worth it. Right now I only have a 40 gallon tank. I've been looking for a 60 gallon tank which would hold a bit more.

The way the media talks, that 5 dollar bill that says good for one gallon is almost about right. I know it now, I'm going to hate next winter. Fuel oil for the furnace will be bad. My sisters house is old. And she has natural gas. Each month she pays 500 bucks which is nuts. I was paying about 400 every two months. So oh well. She needs alot on insulation in her house. I told her to look for a newer house. But nope she didn't listen. Had to get the biggest house she could get lol.

[dougbfresh]

I'm also not worried about cow farts. If its a big problem, we can get some of the illegals to stand behind them with a lighter. I also enjoy steak.



http://money.cnn.com/2008/04/15/technology/Gunther_carbon_finance.fortune/index.htm?postversion=2008041704 Maybe you can gather the cow farts for money??