View Full Version : How many Ponies can a Block handle??
07-30-2001, 03:40 PM
Okay, the actual block I am referring to is a 1995 Pontiac Grand am Quad 4 2.3liter. I would like to know how much horsepower the Block and/or crank can handle before they give. I am loking to acheive possible 200-250 with bolt ons and heres the wild part. 100hp with a turbo and a 100 shot of NOS. I am just wanting to know if the stock block could handle all that. To my calculations the car will push at least 300 w/o NOS and 400 with NOS. Does anybody have any suggestions on this?? Any help would be appreciated.
07-30-2001, 10:53 PM
You will break every part on the car!
- MOD edit- no need to be rude.
07-31-2001, 07:37 PM
The question was "How much can the block handle?" Not "Which ****y **** is gonna tell me what I already know"
So let me ask this smark guy.....Can a custom block be made to handle this kinda power.....cause when I am through I will have one hell of an import killer.....and you better believe it!!!!
07-31-2001, 07:39 PM
Ohhh and just so you know......in 93 there was a 800 horsepower twin turbo Grand Am Not street legal but that just goes to show that anything is possible.....
08-02-2001, 02:45 PM
first off 300 HP will snap off your axels in a second! They dont make HD axels for thoughs cars so they will ahve to be custom made$$$ or be CRYO at a race shop and still snap after a few passes!
The crank in the motor is not a forged steel piece so it will snap with 400 hp!!!100hp per cylinder is brave!
If its a manual you will burn the clutch and stink like burnt clutch!!! Cause the clutchs cant handle that much power!
If its an auto the torque converter will explode.
You are talking about an econo car not a performance vehicle!
So you are talking $6-10,000 in engine parts and internal engine work like porting heads,hardend valves, new cams,timing set, larger sized pipe on the exhaust and of coarse headers!!! Cant forget the N2O 100hp shot that needs an ignition and you should pull 2 degrees of timing for each 50hp of Nitrous Oxide you use so you dont get detonation and blow the head gasket!
Id say sell the GA and find a 93 or 94 camero with the 350 and be happy $3500-5000 and they run 14s stock. Add an N2O 100 shot and run 13's or High 12's!!!
08-02-2001, 08:19 PM
1) I hate cameros I will go Firebird and I will go All motor in a Firebird Forget about assisted power....
2) no body expects a Grand Am to have 400 under the hood
3) I know what i need to run N20
4) I am not 100% sure of what all needs to be changed for the Turbo
5) I have a stage4 clutch for use with big shots of NOS and TWIN turbo stable(yes NOS and Turbo both at the same time)
6) I did not think about the axels..I realize that there have to be many mods involved...the bolt ons include this.....
Cold Air intake
Ported Inake Runner
(header comes with Turbo so its pointless to do one)
I run Bosch Quad 4 plugs on the street. Have Denso Iradium(N2O and Turbo stable) For track use. *have not had the chance to try them yet though!*
MSD ignition system(I already have Electro. Ignition so all i need is the MSD for bigger sparks)
Forged J&E Pistons.
(Bore and Stroke Increase
Shave the heads all for when I rebuild the motor)
Light weight Pulley
Maybe a Ram Air for the intake
Stand alone Fuel system for NOS
So after all that the car just needs a new block and crank and axels to run the Turbo and NOS...If I missed anything let me know. I am trying to Research as much as possible so I can get the Project right. Thanks
08-04-2001, 01:26 AM
hey, since you are going to lite weight pulleys, you should also consider an elec. water pump & elec fan. that will save you a little HP as well. I am not familiar w/ the QUAD 4, so i don't know what size valves you can run, but go BIG. after all, I only run a camaro in the high 10's ( I hate firebirds)
08-04-2001, 07:53 PM
hey cool thanks for the info.....
I already have electric fan from stock....but aren't there aftermarket fans that have more RPM than my stock fan?
I need to check if my water pump is electric. I may be I have the Chilton I'll look it up.
What year camero do you have JTPredator? I have a friend with a 10.55 sec 1968 camero and 9.54 on the bottle....
GM power thats what I'm talking about!!!!!!!
I also thought about dropping my A/c unit...but I live in texas and that would not be worth it.
08-05-2001, 11:30 AM
Looks like ya got your mind made up on what ya want but getting down the track in one piece will be the problem. Well forged pistons will be highly recommended with high tensile strength rods pulling them. The stock crank can take little punishment but its just that STOCK! THe crank will take so much. Why put thousand of dollars in the engine then snap the crank and ruin everything you worked for. If it does hold then the transmission will go and the axles will break. My advise is dont work only on the engine look at other componets that take it down the track also. Horsepower is not everything if ya cant go to the finish line.
Good luck on your project hope everything goes well. And remember a block can take the abuse, with well balanced componets. If the engine is balanced the block WILL take the abuse. Use aftermarket main caps and high quality bearings and run it.
08-07-2001, 02:01 AM
I am running a 75 camaro w/ a 350 .30 over, 500 lift cam, and a 150 N2O boost. as far as your A/C I would take it out w/ a sledge hammer ( kinda like a quadra jet carb) I know it gets hot in TX, but you are loosing anywhere from 10-20 % of your HP. Personally, If I had the money, I would reframe your car, drop a 502 BB in ( with a shoe horn) run a 700 trannybeefed up to god's all knowing power, a solid drive shaft, and a cut down posi rear end, THEN you are talkin power !! But, If you are like me( married and not in control of the money anymore) take your time & do it the slow patient way( which really stinks) but at least it will be done right the first time !! good luck W/ your project !!
08-07-2001, 09:04 AM
Well I'm not married, But I definetly don't have the money to gut it and drop a BB 502 in it. I wish I did! Well that's pretty much the reason I posted I know that my knowledge on cars is not the best. But I do know a bit on certain things. I just want to know what else I have to do to keep the car in one piece with a Turbo and NOS. There is a company that makes a Rearwheel drive conversion kit for my car I am thinking of looking into that. Right now the car is still a daily driver so Sacraficing the A/c is a pretty tough decision. If I had a second car already I would drop the a/c in a heartbeat. I will rebuild the engine next summer and possibly add N20 at the same time. Of course the rebuild includes forged pistons. And a forged Crank if I can find one.
Thanks for the help gentlemen I really appreciate it.
76 Mustang II
01-18-2002, 02:27 AM
if you really want to get to the other end of the track.... I have an EFI 5.0 I'll sell ya.... J/K.... Seriously:
The Axle and xmission internals are a must for high HP high torque engines.
Also, traction is an issue.... upgraded springs, shocks, sway bars.
Don't say that headers are pointless because you have OEM headers.... a great many companies make headers that flow better, and are sized differently for different applications.... do some research. Also if you modify heads, valves, cam, etc... oem headers may still choke you out.
gear ratios are important for e.t.'s....
REACTION time is VERY important
once you get it built..... bring it to Farmington Dragway in NC.... we'll show you there's no substitute for CI....LOL
P.S. I run in the low 9's on go juice alone.... I don't hold much stock in all the laughing gas stuff
02-02-2002, 09:26 PM
well first off dont let 4dr-ss bother you it seems to me he has no clue.
in this day and age there are amzing things that can be done i know i did something that people said couldnt happen. 850 hp out of a straight six with 640 ft lbs of torque.
granted it's a 3 year project and 11,000 dollars later but low 8 is kinda nice from a six lol.
one major thing you want to look into with nos is a good adjustable ignition system because detonation is the ruler of bad news trust me from experience.a new block and head on my end because i didnt listen. you can do anything you want but remember all it takes is money and patience.
do yourself a favor before you jump into anything three things you want to do first.
RESEARCH RESEARCH RESEARCH.
IT WILL BE YOUR BEST FRIEND AND SAVE YOU ALOT OF MONEY.
before i started building i spent over a year talking to speed shops and forums trying to get tips and tricks anywhere i could then researching them further as i got them.
some of the best people to talk to are the engineers for nascar these guys are amazing how they get those v-8s to spool up to 12,000 is unreal but they have the know how. try emailing them i recieved so much help. they are great people.
good luch and have fun
02-03-2002, 07:22 PM
use screw in studs for the heads and crank.and most important do some research on what bearings and rings you intend on using as nos will dictate what to run.don"t over look the little things.enjoy.
76 Mustang II
02-05-2002, 12:08 AM
I forgot to address the NOS issue... If you're going to run NOS one thing is, like the guy above said... a GOOD adjustable ignition... you're going to have to retard when running NOS. Another thing is; if you're going to run NOS... AVOID HIGH COMPRESSION!!! Most of us V-8 guys can tell you, if you wanna go fast on motor, you gotta raise compression 10-15:1 ... but for you guys that can't build one.... NOS likes LOW compression... like in the 8-9:1 range. That kinda puts a damper on building one to run hot on motor and then kicking the laughing gas. You can try it... but talk to MANY guys that went before.... high compression + NOS = BOOM! Tow it home from the track...LOL
02-05-2002, 10:25 PM
the reason the windows can be rolled down... a/c is like the apendix, its just a wase of space, and weight, and such. Loose it, just open the windows, thats how cars were ment to be driven. Unless your concerned about your hair, but i'd rather have messy hair that a cluttered engine compartment.
02-08-2002, 10:44 PM
open windows are like an open parachute, cars were made aerodynamic with the windows up, which is not saying that cars can't be fast with the windows down but they are more aero with them up.
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