2001 Ford Escape Loss of Clutch Peddle

[Lewis]

I have a 2001 4 cyl Ford escape. Lat week I had the brake fluid changed and all lines bled. Today I noticed it difficult to change gears. A little later it felt like the clutch wasn't disengaging as I was parking in a shopping mall parking lot. I parked the car and checked the brake fluid and found it on slightly down from the top. After returning from the store I cranked the car and backed out of the parking spot, everything felt fine. After about a half mile I started feeling no resistance in the clutch and began to pump it, it would pump up after a couple of pumps and I could shift gears. A little further down the road I lost my clutch peddle completely, it would go to the floor with no resistance or clutch release. I still have good brakes, which shares the same fluid reservoir. I was able to get home by turning it off at the red lights, shifting into first and cranking it in gear, after moving I could find another gear. I did this all the way home. In my younger hot rod days with '56 & '57 Chevy's, later Corvettes, I have built engines and installed 4 speed transmissions and clutches, but I don't know anything about these new hydrolic clutches. Could I just have an obstruction in the rubber hose line that is connected to the hard brake line? A bad master cylinder? I don't know a mechanic or a garage I can trust to just take to and say fix it, besides, I am retired and on a fixed income. Any suggestions anyone?

[thcardoc]

The most likely issue is a failing clutch master cylinder, the second most likely is that the slave cylinder starting to leak and where the fluid is getting out, air is also getting in. It cannot be a restricted line, that would give you a hard pedal, and with enough effort you might get the clutch to disengage, bt then it would take a long time for the clutch to re-engage as the fluid would have a hard time getting back passed the restriction.

There are many great technicians out there that can handle this repair in a professional manner. Why don't you know who they are in your town?

You can use the iATN member directory to find some of the best technicians around the world.
www.iatn.net
We do understand someone being a little concerned but there are many times that the lack of trust some people bring to the door prevents us from satisfying their needs, even if we do everything exactly the way we are supposed to. So ask your family and friends for reccomendations, and find someone to service your car. Get to know them so that you see they aren't out to take advantage of you. BTW, if you think being on a fixed income is rough, you should try living on a broken one.

[Lewis]

Thanks for the info. I don't know any professionals because I have only been in the area for 10 months. When I left Georgia I had a couple of professional friends that I trusted and allowed to work on my vehicles. I have my oil changed but that is all the service I've needed. I am used to doing what repairs and maintenance I can myself. I am a fair mechanic except for these computerized engines. I taught my two sons how to maintain their own vehicles. One thing I forgot to mentioned was that every once in a while my brake peddle will go to the floor when I first press it. One pump and it is back to normal. This only happens once a week maybe, I was thinking that maybe there was a master cylinder problem, is this more defining information? Are these master cylinders difficult to change out? I have done it on some of my cars years ago when I would tackle anything. All the new technology makes me shy away from some things, plus I am a little older now and don't feel like crawling under a car anymore.....lol Thanks again for the information and recommendations.

[KA9MOT]

Originally Posted by thcardoc

You can use the iATN member directory to find some of the best technicians around the world.
www.iatn.net

Wow! That is a very poor resource for my area. I do not know what membership entails thecardoc, but as a reference it needs allot of improvement. The closest listed shop (member) to me is 40 miles away and is notorious as a hack shop. Meanwhile, I have 2 shops here locally (same town) that have very good reputations and they are not listed....

Your link looks more like spam than a good resource.

[thcardoc]

Originally Posted by KA9MOT

Wow! That is a very poor resource for my area. I do not know what membership entails thecardoc, but as a reference it needs allot of improvement. The closest listed shop (member) to me is 40 miles away and is notorious as a hack shop. Meanwhile, I have 2 shops here locally (same town) that have very good reputations and they are not listed....

Your link looks more like spam than a good resource.

You'll have to ask your local techs if they are members of the site or not. That page is to find sponsoring shops. As far as you calling a shop that is a member a hack shop, I'll just say they build churches for sinners don't they?

Now what makes your locals stand out? How many factory scan tools does each one have? (Serious questions, visit them and get an answer)
O.E. tools are the Tech II for GM, Saab, Suzuki (same tool different software)
The IDS for Ford and Mazda, The techstream, or techstream lite for Toyota and on and on.

If they don't have any of those, are they trying to rely on just something aftermarket like a Snap-On Solus, Modis, Verus? Maybe something from OTC like the Genysis or Pegasis? Maybe Auto Enginuity, or Maxidas?

Then ask them how many nights of continuing education did they attend this last year? The last two years? Last five years?

These questions are about showing you that a shop that you just called a hack is at least a member of the group and therefore someone there is trying to improve his/her abilities. Meanwhile the shops that you say are good at the moment don't appear to be even making as much of an effort to keep up with today's cars as someone in your hack shop is. Now again I'll say that it is possible that maybe they are members at a technicians level and not that of a sponsoring shop. The information that techs have been sharing with each other in that site since 1996 has made that the ultimate information resource in the automotive repair trade. It is where you will find many of the best techs in the world, as well as many who are still learning to be the best that they can be. I'll await your findings.

[olddog]

It seems odd to me that the clutch master cylinder is sharing brake reservoir. I'd hate to pop a clutch line or cylinder and loose both my brakes and clutch at the same time. Maybe it is.

I have a hydraulic through out bearing in my Cobra replica. I converted a slip fit where the headers and side pipes joined to a bolted flange joint. The flange plate ended up about a 1/2 inch closer to my clutch line, and it boiled the fluid. That gave me a very spongy clutch. I re-routed the line. Bleeding the air out was difficult. I learned you have to lift the peddle to let more fluid into the masters piston, if it doesn't return all the way on its own. And it wouldn't until most of the air was out.

If you had fluid replaced and the clutch shares the same reservoir, you may have air. Also anti-lock brakes can be a real bugger to bleed. Possible you have air in both systems.

[carsandcycles]

I think olddog is correct, and the brake and clutch do not share the same reservoir; I looked up the master cylinder for clutch at Rockauto, and it appears to have its own reservoir. I've been wrong before but that seems to be a 'not' smart thing to do (sharing a reservoir).

Back to the original problem, you car also has a slave cylinder, and that also, can go bad. I would look up under the car and check for fluid leaks (in and around the transmission/clutch area) to check for that.

[thcardoc]

I didn't bother checking before because it's actually quite common today for the brake system and clutch to share the same reservoir. According to Mitchell On Demand they do share the same reservoir.

[carsandcycles]

I stand corrected; I guess with the redundancies of the brake master cylinder it's not as dangerous as it sounds.

[KA9MOT]

Originally Posted by thcardoc

You'll have to ask your local techs if they are members of the site or not. That page is to find sponsoring shops. As far as you calling a shop that is a member a hack shop, I'll just say they build churches for sinners don't they?

Now what makes your locals stand out? How many factory scan tools does each one have? (Serious questions, visit them and get an answer)
O.E. tools are the Tech II for GM, Saab, Suzuki (same tool different software)
The IDS for Ford and Mazda, The techstream, or techstream lite for Toyota and on and on.

If they don't have any of those, are they trying to rely on just something aftermarket like a Snap-On Solus, Modis, Verus? Maybe something from OTC like the Genysis or Pegasis? Maybe Auto Enginuity, or Maxidas?

Then ask them how many nights of continuing education did they attend this last year? The last two years? Last five years?

These questions are about showing you that a shop that you just called a hack is at least a member of the group and therefore someone there is trying to improve his/her abilities. Meanwhile the shops that you say are good at the moment don't appear to be even making as much of an effort to keep up with today's cars as someone in your hack shop is. Now again I'll say that it is possible that maybe they are members at a technicians level and not that of a sponsoring shop. The information that techs have been sharing with each other in that site since 1996 has made that the ultimate information resource in the automotive repair trade. It is where you will find many of the best techs in the world, as well as many who are still learning to be the best that they can be. I'll await your findings.

I would trust the local customer who walks in and out of the door and have first hand knowledge to be a more accurate reference of the quality of the shop than I would some website that claims to represent the reputation of these shops....allot like the BBB does. Misrepresentation is the norm.

[thcardoc]

So you are not going to confirm if they happen to be members of the iATN or not? What's sad is you want to diss the group and you have no idea what they are really all about. Just the factory training provided to the group for private study by GM, Ford, and Toyota is more than many less committed technicians get in their entire careers. Then there are several million documents written by technicians, for technicians on just about any automotive topic you can imagine.

Do you qualify to try and join as a member or not?

[KA9MOT]

OK, you misunderstood what I was saying. I said for my area. I live in a rural area and I'm betting that nobody here feels the need to belong to some group like this.

I do not frequent the mechanics here. Any mechanics. However, I know many people who use S&S Auto Repair in Monmouth, IL and I've never heard a single bad thing about them. It is always, "They fixed it right, quickly and it didn't cost a fortune." Not so with other shops including one that is listed on that site.
I'm not saying that site is misleading anybody. I'm saying the are not the tell all, end all you believe them to be. They are not that good of a resource FOR THIS AREA of the country.

Also, I do not care who owns what scan tools. I wouldn't know the difference. I do know some are better than others but that is the extent of my knowledge.

I have no formal training in the auto repair field, yet I manage to keep my junk running well. I am disabled now and can no longer work on my own vehicles. I do have a couple of young nephews and a couple of sons who will do as I tell them to do and it all works out.

Heck, my 13 year old tore down a 1975 Honda Goldwing to the frame and rebuilt it with my guidance when he was 10. The only thing he didn't do was the paintwork...... The bike ran great and looked good when we were done. I could not ride it so we traded it for a bass boat that he helped me fix up and we sold.

Do I qualify to join? That's a joke right? I wouldn't join if I were a mechanic. Word of mouth is king....** is just **.

[thcardoc]

Originally Posted by KA9MOT

OK, you misunderstood what I was saying. I said for my area. I live in a rural area and I'm betting that nobody here feels the need to belong to some group like this.

I'd like think I misunderstood you but after three plus decades of repairing cars and meeting a lot of people who truly value what we do, but still sufferring at the discretion of others who are really only about saving themselves a buck by hook or by crook I'm comfortable with my interpretation.

I do not frequent the mechanics here. Any mechanics. However, I know many people who use S&S Auto Repair in Monmouth, IL and I've never heard a single bad thing about them. It is always, "They fixed it right, quickly and it didn't cost a fortune." Not so with other shops including one that is listed on that site.

Let's "assume" that they have had problems, the facts are that everyone does because half of the time it's the people who walk into their door that already have an attitude. The cars have been changing rapidly over the last two decades, and some long term shops have managed to still hold onto what they were doing twenty-thirty years ago for a number of reasons that would take years to work through in a forum. But suffice it to say for those older shops all of the major things are paid for (most if not all of the equipment, the building etc), and many take every chance to work for cash that they get. That makes certian people happier with them for what they are doing but it's all for the wrong reasons.

Try and start a new shop near them and have to cover bills that they don't, and be progressive and purchase the scan tools and software licences that they are not and then try to compete with them while they get to price way below you for all the wrong reasons.

I'm not saying that site is misleading anybody. I'm saying the are not the tell all, end all you believe them to be. They are not that good of a resource FOR THIS AREA of the country.

Resource in that the shops around you aren't concerned with staying up to date with technology that is in the cars? They can of course send the stuff they aren't capable of doing back to the dealership and simply keep cherry picking.

Or do you mean resource by the collective thoughts and experiences of some 70,000 members world-wide?

Also, I do not care who owns what scan tools. I wouldn't know the difference. I do know some are better than others but that is the extent of my knowledge.

OK, fair enough there. That sentiment underscores one of the biggest issues shops face today. You have your vision of what a shop should appear to be doing and what you think it should cost. (and there are many like you) Meanwhile the reality is full professional level aftermarket scan tools (Snap-On, OTC et al) can usually only do up to about 80% of what a shop may need with the most common manufacturers vehicles and a lot less than that with many others. Aftermarket tools at the level we have seen used on the show do far less than professional level equipment. If a shop chooses to operate eye level with the dealerships they have no choice but to spend ten's of thousands more for additional O.E. tools that in the end effectively only allow them to do that last 20% or so. If that was the end of the expense maybe it wouldn't be quite as bad but there is also more classroom training each and every year that must also be accounted for when in comes to calculating the CODB (cost of doing business) and all of these expenses have to be passed onto the customers, while they are competing on the street with someone who is allowing the harder work to simply pass by their doors.

I have no formal training in the auto repair field, yet I manage to keep my junk running well. I am disabled now and can no longer work on my own vehicles. I do have a couple of young nephews and a couple of sons who will do as I tell them to do and it all works out.

I hear sentiments like that all of the time. Some of the work that shops do is fundamental and natural talents can see you through, in a private setting that is. That in no way suggests any competence to the level that the consumers would demand. The world is full of ex-mehanics that are "ex" because they weren't as good as they thought they were (think they are). That doesn't mean they cannot fix anything but they simply could not make it at a professional level.

Heck, my 13 year old tore down a 1975 Honda Goldwing to the frame and rebuilt it with my guidance when he was 10. The only thing he didn't do was the paintwork...... The bike ran great and looked good when we were done. I could not ride it so we traded it for a bass boat that he helped me fix up and we sold.

I was repairing bicicyles, mini bikes, and tractors, without guidence, before I was his age. I was rebuilding the top half of my first Chev 350 at 13 without help. The funny thing is that is something that never appears to be appreciated, nor fully understood. That ability only meant that I had the talent to be a good mechanic/technician it was not a measure of how easy the work is or isn't even way back then.

Do I qualify to join? That's a joke right? I wouldn't join if I were a mechanic. Word of mouth is king....** is just **.

As I said, there are many like you.

[olddog]

Ok. I'm not a moderator, but we shouldn't be discussing the prose and cons of shops in this thread. I'll start a new thread on that subject.