restoration

[Porcupine]

I have a 1927 Cushman 2 stroke engine that I am restoring. It's all stripped down and all body panels have been sanded. I chose to use a nylon wheel. It did an awesome job. I'm right down to bare metal. The engine block is cast aluminum and the head is cast iron. The block was painted by someone with silver or aluminum paint so I stripped all that down to bare aluminum. I later found out that the gas cap in and out is solid brass as is the spout that it screws on to. The petc.ock and mount are also solid brass. Everything was soldered together

So far, so good.

The battery box, air shroud and gas tank stripped down to mare metal I'm filling any scratches, minior dents, and mini pits from old rust with spot putty/mastic.

It says to let it dry for 30 minutues but I'll let it dry for over night and then reapply where needed.

My question is (Daniel Wood), when I start to sand, to smooth out this spot putty, what grade should I start with and what grades after that to assure a smooth suface ready for priming and painting.

I plan to resand after priming to further smooth.
Then after I paint all the paintable sufaces with a rattle can of laquer, I plan to resand again with 1000 then 1500 sand paper and then buff with compound after that.

This is my first small engine restoration and I have a few more lined up.
I'll take all the suggestions and advice I can get for body work.

That weird looking thing on top of the carburetor is more than a filter. I'm not 100%, but a velocity stack? It has a small screen on top to prevent debris from entering the carb itself. That was buffed down to bare metal too and I think I'll just clear coat that piece. The carb is all cast aluminum. The muffler is cast aluminum so it's buffed down also. Hence limited painting required but what I do paint has to be 100% and then some.

If any of you have been to old tractor and steam shows you may have seen the old hit-and-miss engines and tons of other farm or old equipment engines.

The base will either be a solid oak, walnut or mahogany board with routered edges and a brass plate for identification. It will also be 100% operable for the steam show(s) that I attend.

[vetteonr]

Nice project Porkster. We are really looking forward to more photos. Got any of the body in it's current state?

[Porcupine]

Right now, it's in a million pieces, all labeled and layed out. I'm half way through the actual body work but waiting hlep sanding advice. Hello Daniel

[Daniel Wood]

If it were dents or rust, I would use body filler with fiberglass already mixed in it for the rust and body filler for dents. In this case, use the body filler that has fiberglass. I believe it's called Dynoglass, not quite sure. Now if you go this route, you'll need a rubber sanding block, 36, 80 and 220 grit sandpaper because when this material drys, it's hard.

Just make sure (like you mention) that it's down to the bare metal before applying. But the filler your talking about if it's soft enough (like the 3M product) use 400 grit and lightly sand. If it's still uneven, just repeat the process.

When everything is smooth, wipe with a grease remover because of sweat or oil off your fingers will leave residue that will start to rust. Use a good primer and just apply light coats at a time (yes, I'm talking about a car or truck but it's still the same) three coats should be enough. After primer has dried, lightly sand with 400 grit using a sponge or rubber block or the palm of your hand, not your fingers. Only use fingers in tight places. Fingers will leave groves in the primer or the paint when color sanding (getting ready to buff) you can buy the block where they sell automotive paint. You'll have to choose which one you like.

After you've sanded all panels, re-prime again (usually just 2 coats) and lightly sand again for a good smooth finish. Now you can dry or wet sand this, I prefer wet sanding. Make sure you use a latex glove while doing all of this. If this was a vehicle that you drove every day, I would suggest using a primer sealer before painting. But in this case, you'll be ok.

Now in this heat, that paint is going to dry fast. You don't have the option of a slow drying thinner with those rattle cans or spray bombs, so be careful. Just make sure that you over lap your layers pretty close to 50%, you'll just have to get to feel of it as you go. With these rattle cans and this heat it's going to be hard to tell you how close or how far away to spray while painting. But you'll be able to tell.

After painting (and I would spray on at least five coats of paint because of sanding afterwards to get a smooth finish), if you have a slick finish, 1000 or 1500 grit will be fine. But it's a good possibility that you'll some dry areas, in this case, you'll need some 600 grit and lightly sand that area. I would take some very light rubbing compound and lightly rub the finish by hand instead of using a buffer on something this small. But that's just me and then wax.

I know that's a lot of instructions, but it's how I would do it. Actually, I would do it like I would a regular vehicle.

I know sometimes that it's easier to watch someone or a tape to see how it's actually done. Go to YouTube and I believe they may be some instructions and you could watch how it's done.

Hope this helps.

*Edit* forgot to mention with the spray cans, give it about two minutes in between coats. Also, that stuff your using maybe the material they're using now to put on body filler that is very soft. If that's the case, use 220 grit sandpaper to smooth it down and then prime.

[Porcupine]

Thanks Daniel I knew you had the answers. I knew some of the stuff but not enough to say I knew what needed to be done. Sometimes it's the little tricks of "how-to" that saves the day.
I watch a lot of American Restoration as well but they don't tell all the tips. It might be a few weeks before this is done (not rushing anything) and if there's anything that needs redoing, then it'll be redone.

I'll post pictures after the fact of my 1927 2-stroke Cushman.

My next engine needs little restoration but it's a 1962 (patent 1921) Suffolk Iron Works 3.5 HP 4 stroke and a few more on the horizon.
Thanks again

[Daniel Wood]

Try to put that bare metal in primer as soon as you can. Moisture, people touching it etc. etc. can be your worst enemy.

[Porcupine]

Right now my plan was to use laquer as a paint finish, because that's what I heard on American Restoration.

Is that because a laquer finish is a more workable finish for final buffing and treatment and that laquer remains the same from top of its layer to bottom? Or is there another reason?
When I hear laquer, enamel, acrylic and other finishes I'm not sure what the differences are betwen them. I do understand base coats and clear coats.

I think I'm staying with laquer for now but if there is a reason why I should use a different finish now would be the time to redo if I had to.

BTW I'm using Duplicolor and I decided a two tone (2 different colors) of period correctness, not neccessarily manufacture correctness

[thcardoc]

Looking forward to lots of pics and details. Great project .

[Porcupine]

Originally Posted by Daniel Wood

If it were dents or rust, I would use body filler with fiberglass already mixed in it for the rust and body filler for dents. In this case, use the body filler that has fiberglass. I believe it's called Dynoglass, not quite sure. Now if you go this route, you'll need a rubber sanding block, 36, 80 and 220 grit sandpaper because when this material drys, it's hard.

Just make sure (like you mention) that it's down to the bare metal before applying. But the filler your talking about if it's soft enough (like the 3M product) use 400 grit and lightly sand. If it's still uneven, just repeat the process.

When everything is smooth, wipe with a grease remover because of sweat or oil off your fingers will leave residue that will start to rust. Use a good primer and just apply light coats at a time (yes, I'm talking about a car or truck but it's still the same) three coats should be enough. After primer has dried, lightly sand with 400 grit using a sponge or rubber block or the palm of your hand, not your fingers. Only use fingers in tight places. Fingers will leave groves in the primer or the paint when color sanding (getting ready to buff) you can buy the block where they sell automotive paint. You'll have to choose which one you like.

After you've sanded all panels, re-prime again (usually just 2 coats) and lightly sand again for a good smooth finish. Now you can dry or wet sand this, I prefer wet sanding. Make sure you use a latex glove while doing all of this. If this was a vehicle that you drove every day, I would suggest using a primer sealer before painting. But in this case, you'll be ok.

Now in this heat, that paint is going to dry fast. You don't have the option of a slow drying thinner with those rattle cans or spray bombs, so be careful. Just make sure that you over lap your layers pretty close to 50%, you'll just have to get to feel of it as you go. With these rattle cans and this heat it's going to be hard to tell you how close or how far away to spray while painting. But you'll be able to tell.

After painting (and I would spray on at least five coats of paint because of sanding afterwards to get a smooth finish), if you have a slick finish, 1000 or 1500 grit will be fine. But it's a good possibility that you'll some dry areas, in this case, you'll need some 600 grit and lightly sand that area. I would take some very light rubbing compound and lightly rub the finish by hand instead of using a buffer on something this small. But that's just me and then wax.

I know that's a lot of instructions, but it's how I would do it. Actually, I would do it like I would a regular vehicle.

I know sometimes that it's easier to watch someone or a tape to see how it's actually done. Go to YouTube and I believe they may be some instructions and you could watch how it's done.

Hope this helps.

*Edit* forgot to mention with the spray cans, give it about two minutes in between coats. Also, that stuff your using maybe the material they're using now to put on body filler that is very soft. If that's the case, use 220 grit sandpaper to smooth it down and then prime.

To-date:I used spot putty for all my body (or panel) repairs. The dents, dings and scratches were small enough that the spot putty worked great. Mind you I did it with serveral light applications.
I sprayed 2 coats of primer and used up to a 600 sandpaper on the primer.
2 coats final paint so far and 3 more coats tomorrow.

Q: How long should I wait before I sand down the final coat with the 1500 sand paper?
Q: what type of compound should I use? Regular Meguir's?

I might add. It looks great at 2 coats. To add 3 more coats plus 1500 sanding, plus compound? Should be good

[Daniel Wood]

Rule of thumb is, decide how many coats you want and spray at one time (make sure you use flash times in between coats) because when the paint is green (fresh) the next coat will stick to it better. Spraying the rest of the coats the next day, you could run into problems sometimes. Paint coking if using acrylic enamel, Lacher could cure etc. etc. I have seen painters do this, but I wouldn't recommend it. Talking about vehicles of course. I believe you'll be okay, but like I said, I wouldn't recommend it.

As far as sanding, using Lacher in this heat, I've seen painters wait at least five hours. I would give it a day and then color sand.

I like the 3M product myself. You can choose from mild to medium and heavy grit depending on how rough the surfaces is. Any good compound will do but I suggest a mild grit in this case and rub by hand.

If you're satisfied with the way it looks now, why not just wax it in about a week? Is there any overspray, orange peel (surface looks like an orange peel)? If it's smooth, I would just wax it and not sand it at all. Can you post some pictures of it up close the way it looks now before putting the extra coats of paint on it?

[Porcupine]

I guess timing is everything.
I was out bright and early this morning prepping for another coat. I had to do a minor repair that I never saw before so it wasn't a waste of time.

I also lightly resanded the one entire piece, again lightly sanded with 600.
I resprayed.

15 minutes later....oops I saw that "coking effect" that you referred to. Kind of a wrinkling effect.

A pain for sure and annoying for sure, but the best part is lesson learned I read your response only after I did the second coat. The can said reapplying after 24hrs.
Your instructions were obviously better, to recoat while tacky for better adhesion.

So, I'll let the whole thing dry for a week, sand it down to near bare metal, prime and repaint as before.

This one piece is referred to as the "battery box". While most small engines have a magneto, this one is powered by a 6volt battery, coil and exterior points. The gas tank and air shroud are both fine because I did not redo them. I'm not overly concerned about redoing the battery box but lesson learned.

Summary: I followed your instructions but not close enough.

This is one of the main reasons people come to the TGG forum, to ask the "pros" how things are done. Needless to say body and paint work, I need to learn more. That said I really enjoy doing this type of restoration work because the end results will show your effort input


Gas tank and air shroud, not so bad




battery box, not so good

[Daniel Wood]

15 minutes later....oops I saw that "coking effect" that you referred to. Kind of a wrinkling effect.

So, I'll let the whole thing dry for a week, sand it down to near bare metal, prime and repaint as before.

I really enjoy doing this type of restoration work because the end results will show your effort.

I thought you spelt the word cooking wrong until I looked at my post. Yeah, it's cooking, not coking. My mistake.

Whether it's restoration or bodywork, now you know why I enjoyed it so much. I really love my work.

Whatever you do, don't leave any of the paint on, you'll have the same problem when you re-prime. From the looks of that picture, it looks like you're using enamel instead of lacquer whether it's acrylic or synthol. You can not spray over fresh enamel, not even if it's a year old unless you spray a certain type of primer over it after it prep right.

This is dangerous, but I've done it many times. Find a place that's well ventilated and absolutely no smoking, not even a pilot light burning on a heater or hot water heater. Lay a rag over the panel and poor paint thinner (automotive paint thinner and just enough to saturate the rag) let it sit for a few minutes and take a single edge razor blade or putty knife and gently scrape the paint off. Or in this case that the paint is so fresh, you could use a paint remover. It's a lot faster and easier. Sand again with 400 grit until it's smooth, re-prime and sand again and then paint.

Hope this helps.

*Edit* I forgot to mention, if this is enamel that you're using. You need to wait at least three weeks before color sanding and compounding. Enamel is very soft and takes a while to cure.

[Porcupine]

Good grief.... I was wondering about Coking versus cooking. Even Wikipedia was no help. Wikipedia sent a note to me asking what I was smoking. I told Wikipedia to talk to Daniel Wood. I know there is a term called coking but it's in the metal **** industry and coking is more of a fuel for treament of some sort.

Anyway, now that we know Daniel Wood is sort of human, back to the task at hand.

Being only a few days old I might do the paint thinner. It will certainly be faster and probably less messy. Went ventitlated (back yard on a tarp). Most likely done in minutes, dry, reprime sand and repaint.

I did notice that on some cans in Home Depot ot other automotive shops that there is no description of what type of paint it is that you're buying. Dupilicolor does state on the can laquer, enamel or acrylic etc. Rustoleum does not.
This could very well be enamel. but as long as I get the affect that I want...bottom line..

EDIT BTW the word that was bleeped out by TGG was the word s.lag. That word only has one meaning and it's not a bad word. S.lag is a mixture of 2 products or by-products of metal smelting ore.

[carsandcycles]

How about 'crinkling'. Here's even a link: http://www.glasurit.com/uae/rcc-paint-defect-crinkling

[Daniel Wood]

Good link C&C, I've never heard that term before.

Porcupine, if you decide to use thinner, keep it away from your hands as much possible. Always pick up the rag at the corner and lay it to the side. Lacquer thinner will burn you after a few minutes.

Don't make the mistake of putting a rag with just a little thinner on it in your back pocket. I was in a hurry one time and actually did that. Needless to say in just a few minutes, my left cheek was burning like hell. Yeah, pure stupidity and I knew better.