What is a good shop and how do you find one?

[olddog]

In my area most dealerships and larger shops charge $85 per hour for labor. Well that is a lot of money, especially when the average Joe today has a hard time finding a job that pays $15/hr. On the other hand, try to run a legitimate business today and charge less.

For the business, they charge you $100 and the IRS takes $50. Now try to pay for a commercial building in a city - half a million $$. Energy bills! Try heating a garage. Now buy all the specialized tools and education needed to stay current. Then pay the technician and a manager and try to provide some benefits. Kind of hard to keep people if they have no medical coverage and no ability to ever retire. This is what it takes if you want to work on automobiles that sell for $20K to $100K new.

Now the average Joe trying to live on $15/hr doesn't have to pay taxes, and in fact may get a return that he never paid in (earned income credit), so he has no clue what it is like to have half his money confiscated. However in the end he is paying taxes because business doesn't pay taxes, their customers pay them. The point there is a huge disconnect here.

The average Joe cannot afford a new car. In fact he is likely to buy one 10+ yrs old in the $3-5K range. The problem is, the average Joe cannot work on the new technology, for one he cannot afford the tools. Worse he cannot afford to pay a top notch shop either.

So what is he to do? He can find a mom and pops shop that hasn't stayed current and has had the place paid for for years. One that doesn't even charge half as much as the top notch shops. This guy might only be able to fix half the problems that comes his way, but if he is smart enough to tell you up front when he cannot fix it, he is as good as gold. So what he isn't up to date on tools, or training, your car is old and he knows a thing or two about it. It may be a good match.

Why pay a top notch shop twice the money to fix an old car, when Billy Bob can fix it for half price? Well if you know an honest Billy Bob that's great, but what if you run into Bubba who has an over inflated opinion of his true talents? Or worse yet, a Bubba who would never tell the truth, when a lie would do. You may start out thinking your going to pay half price and end up paying twice the price, and it still isn't fixed.

Well there is the third option, try and fix it yourself. Guess and through parts at it. Sometimes you get lucky and fix it the first or 2nd try. If you do, usually replacing one maybe two perfectly good parts is less than the labor would have cost you to take it to a shop, but eventually you will loose and pay more than taking it to a top notch shop. You can search the internet and increase your odds, but your still gambling. Also you are going to have to invest in tools. Sooner or later you will make a big mistake and screw up a very expensive part beyond repair, where it will cost more than the car is worth to fix, and have to junk the car.

If you can find honest Billy Bob, you got it made. But how do you find him?

Well I hope some people chime in here.

[thcardoc]

Hi OD.

Quite the conundrum isn't it?
A young technician stopped into my shop yesterday. His plan was to see if I was hiring. He works in a shop closer to Pittsburgh that has been in business for decades and to his credit already see's the writing on the walls. The shop he is currently at is significantly underpriced, and undertooled. While they are still achieving a certain level of success with cars that are older than 2002's, the 2004's and newer are slowly creeping in and they are really struggling with them. Upon being asked he even admitted they use the same bulk oil on almost everything they service and do the oil changes for under twenty five bucks. They are doing on the surface everything that would earn them praise similar to that suggested in the previous thread, and nothing that will continue to carry the business forward against the flood of technology in the cars.

Meanwhile, several shops around them that are trying to be progressive have to endure the price competition, based on stagnation. The owner has been recognized as a great mechanic for years and is surviving only on the fact that his expenses are nil. He won't be in business five years from now but the damage he will do to the shops around him will take some of them with him. That's when the real cost of what he is doing will be recognized by the consumers.

[olddog]

cardoc it is obvious to me that you strive for excellence and are trying to lead the way in educating the next generation of techs. Your technical skills I would never challenge.

Up until the last few years, I would have agreed with your overall strategy, but the world is taking a huge turn for the worse. The gap between the upper and lower incomes is widening at an increasing rate. In fact it is beyond alarming. If you invest the money to be the best, you can usually command a premium price. However the number of people who can afford your premium price is shrinking. An increasing number of people are being pinched and can no longer afford the price. It is not a matter of what they want to do, but it is all they can afford.

The auto companies have already felt this crunch. Let's face it, if I buy a new car, for 3-5 yrs the manufacturer repairs everything. I do not need an independent shop. So you will not see a car until after it is out of warranty. Now my last three cars (92 Crown Vic, 03 Marqui, and 98 Ranger) all added together has not had $1000 in repair costs including brakes (I change them myself). The manufactures could easily warranty cars to 100 miles and beyond. If pinched more they may do so.

You may claim that these guys who are not staying current are hurting good shops and taking them down with them. This is the free market working. They may argue that they are cutting costs and keep prices at levels people can afford. They may see that in the future no independent shops will survive anyway. Why invest in a future that will disappear?

[thcardoc]

Originally Posted by olddog

You may claim that these guys who are not staying current are hurting good shops and taking them down with them. This is the free market working.

Agreed.

They may argue that they are cutting costs and keep prices at levels people can afford.

In fact that is what many claim. However they look to things like the Right to Repair Act which is being fought in Massachusetts as something will will turn around and save them by handing them everything that haven't been investing in for a fraction of today's costs.

They may see that in the future no independent shops will survive anyway. Why invest in a future that will disappear?

Most want to make it to retirement and then they just want to walk away and leave the problem to who ever is left standing. Almost everything else you had there was pretty accurate, the independent mom and pop shop will be a thing of the past. You'll still have the tire stores and the quick lube chains and a few where the pockets are lined with old money, but there will be no new businesses starting up to replace the ones you see out there today as they close the doors. The CODB is simply too high for the projectable returns. Anyone who has enough money to get started today has enough money to do much better and easier things with it.

[KA9MOT]

OH BROTHER!

[thcardoc]

Originally Posted by KA9MOT

OH BROTHER!

Not sure how to take your exclamation. If what you have read here doesn't match your perception that's OK because prior to this you would have had no reason to look closer.

Threads like this one
http://members.iatn.net/forums/read/...?c=1&f=forum16
That I read just this morning from a technician in Rochester Ny who is ready to give up the trade because he cannot find a shop that lives up to the professional standards that spell out a career that promises growth.

Here is one article about R2R..
http://blogs.wsj.com/drivers-seat/20...-battleground/

Here is an entire thread about it
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f117d5f/0

[3boystoys]

Car repair will go the way of TV repair.

[thcardoc]

Originally Posted by 3boystoys

Car repair will go the way of TV repair.

There are many who appear to want to see that happen, but the prices of cars is not likely to go the way of the price of TVs.