camshaft help

[skoelker]

hey guys, once again i am working on my 91 camaro. currently rebuilding the engine, and i am at a sticking point. i am looking for a camshaft for it, it is the 305 HO engine. i have an auto trans, and i am looking for something that isn't real wild.. i also have to go thru emission testing where i live.. i have looked at the sealed power cams, but none of them were correct for the late model 305, they didn't have the spot for the retainer on them. i called comp cams, and was looking at their 08-500-8, i was told that it should pass emissions, but it doesn't have a CARB number(which kinda worries me) any info on a good cam for a late model small block(espically with an auto trans) would be appreciated..

thanks for the help
shannon

[thecarguy]

retainer as in the cam button for somthing like a roller cam? If the cam dosent have an EO number thats no problem...the smog tech isnt gonna pull the cam to check its #'s, but you may run into problems when you go for a smog check and the thing dosent idle. Have you tried edelbrock? I know a lot of their stuff is CARB legal. You may also try comp or crane.

[KA9MOT]

Good answer cargy! Also, make sure you work with the cam company you choose. The cam has to be compatable with your computer.

[Gearhead52]

91 with a 305 and needs the cam with the shoulder on it for the retainer plate......Right......?

Dude....this engine has a roller cam in it.

Just about all the 305's had rollers in them from 87 up. Heck...even the 4.3 or 262 V8's had rollers in them. My IROC had the 305 TPI with a roller in it.

Disadvantage of making this swap.....the cam is an expensive part. just around the $300 mark for a roller....You may find them cheaper but only a little.

Also.....you need to stick with a Crane if you can.....Crane make all the roller cams for GM and they have a way to make the cam so you don't need to use the bronze distributer gear. Or find another manufacturer but you may need to get the bronze dist gear.

Advantages of a roller....Better performance, fuel economy, no need to replace the roller lifters if yours are in good shape.

Does anyone know why they need the bronze gear and why they are expensive and why do they need a retainer or thrust button ??

[thecarguy]

I dont know about the bronze gear but I heard its because of harmonic vibrations breaking the distributor shaft.

But the cam button is because on a solid cam the lobes slope downward to the front of the engine. This way when the valves are opening the pressure of the spring is holding the cam back into the engine. There is no way to run a roller on a slope so they have a retainer to keep the cam in the block.

[Gearhead52]

TCG,

You're on the right track......and quite often, because of this, there is no wear pattern on the lifter and cam lobe that match. So roller lifters can be used on replacement cams providing they are not worn out.

The bronze gear is because of the cam being a billet cut peice. The cast gear on the distributer gear isn't compatable. The softer bronze wears better.

[skoelker]

gearhead, you are right, it is a roller cam(i forgot to put that in), and carguy, i know they won't pull the cam out, but the CARB no. is more for my piece of mind. i am hoping ohio gets rid of echeck, but i don't see that happening. i looked on crane cams site last night, and the last roller cam they had listed (that was emission legal) stated that it was used thru 89, i was not able to locate one on their site for a 91.. now does anyone know that if a cam was used up to 89 should it still work(for emissions) in a 91 so long as i have the cat converter and all other emission things for a 91?? and i have having no luck finding a cam anywhere else either.. i have check several parts houses around here and they don't list a roller cam for my car(that is for emissions) i even found out that NAPA doesn't do cams at all(that's what they told me at least)

[thecarguy]

When you say:

"now does anyone know that if a cam was used up to 89 should it still work(for emissions) in a 91"

Do you want to know if it will still work as far as being a legal swap as putting a CARB certified part for an 89 itnto a 91? Or legal as in still be able to pass a test?

Ill give you a quick rundown on how a CARB EO # is issued...First the part maker must posess that specific vehicle. Lets use a 2000 camaro and Tims Performance Parts for an example. So lets say TPP wants to make an intake kit for a 2000 camaro. Once TPP gets the car, and they make the actual kit they will spend lots and lots of money in R&D. Lots more to CARB in fake bull crap fees. Then it will be put up for an emissions test. The car must pass with the same emissions readings as stock, but with the part in question installed. Then theres more bull crap. The test must be done on an automatic car, and one with manual, and one with or without a/c...basically all power train configurations. Once all that is done Tims Performance Parts can now put their CARB EO#'s onto their intake kits for all 2000 camaros and even advertise thier kits as being CARB legal. If TPP wants to sell kits for 2001 camaros, they need to go through all the testing again with each model year.

Now back to your question of will it work? If you have a cam with a CARB # on it for an 89 camaro it can only go into an 89 camaro (to be a legal swap). If you put a cam with a CARB # for an 89 camaro into a 91 camaro, that is not a legal part swap. Think of it as rolling slowly through a stop sign in the middle of the night, in the middle of nowhere. Yes its still wrong, but your not gonna get caught.

Will it still pass the sniffer test? Very possible. Crane may have only had enough $ to spend on certifications for up to a 89 camaro. They may see no market (for whatever reason) for cams for a 90 to 93 camaro so they didnt spend the money on certifying more cars. So you very well may be able to pass the sniffer test with the cam for a 89.

[danny]

hey skoelker, you live in ohio, just drive to summitt and talk to one of their techs.

[Gearhead52]

TCG does shed some light on important parts of the CARB thing. Some of these I found to be very true, because of first hand experience......more than likely the reason you don't see too many CARB rated parts.

Here in Illinois they run grams per mile tests instead of parts per million. The PPM test was easy to pass with some tweaking of the tuneup. GPM is not so easy to fool.

I was able to pass the PPM tests without a cat and SES light on but bulb removed.

If you live in a PPM area still any reasonable cam will pass providing it's tuned well.

A well tuned GPM test will get you by too, with a moderate grind on a cam.

Rumors have it that a LT4 Hot Cam will pass. It's an "Off Road Cam" according to GM. I have the hot cam in the IROC but it isn't plated yet so they don't ask about it. The area in Indiana I plan to move to is not tested.

[Gearhead52]

Here are suggestions.......

Crane....#109811, has iron gear and the stock roller lifters are compatable.
Comp Cams....XR264HR. Will need different lifter set up and bronze dist. gear.
Speed Pro....PRO 1500 in a roller cam cut. will need the same as Comp cams.

These are one step up type cams that will boost the performance and keep the computer happy. If the computer is happy most often they'll pass a sniffer test.

I stronly suggest that you keep the lifter design in mind. Find out what all is necessary for the swap. In some cases they come in a matched set of cam, lifters and push rods. This you need to know.

The Speed pro in a flat tappet design I have used before and got good results in a 305 and passed the GPM test here in IL. They also have a flat tappet grind for a 305 that is a CARB cam.

One more thing........The HO rated 305 has a cam that is just slightly different than standard and they have, or should have, a cool air duct system, on the TB. Very little else is different.

[KA9MOT]

Originally Posted by Gearhead52

Here in Illinois they run grams per mile tests instead of parts per million.

Only in the Nazi parts of Illinois. Over here in Illinois you can run whatcha brung!

[thecarguy]

Gearhead...was billybob a shirtless guy in overalls the guy that passed you with the SES light missing? Thats a big NO NO. Key on engine off there needs to be a MIL/SES light on or no pass on visual.

[KA9MOT]

Originally Posted by thecarguy

Gearhead...was billybob a shirtless guy in overalls the guy that passed you with the SES light missing? Thats a big NO NO. Key on engine off there needs to be a MIL/SES light on or no pass on visual.

Does Illinois do a visual? Every state is different. I would be very surprised if Illinois anything other then a sniffer test.

[Gearhead52]

Originally Posted by thecarguy

Gearhead...was billybob a shirtless guy in overalls the guy that passed you with the SES light missing? Thats a big NO NO. Key on engine off there needs to be a MIL/SES light on or no pass on visual.

Wasn't Billybob......that was just the way they did it then. You drove up, waited the usual hour wait while you watched the guys pick their noses and other assorted things, never shut off the engine just had to have all the accessories off, put a probe up the tail pipe, would lay a sensor on the windshield to detect the presence of a computer, printed out your "mother may I" sticker and you went on your way. The emission parameters were so wide I don't see how anyone didn't pass.

One time I went in with the van and it was missing one of the two gas caps and they passed me. (EW #1 left it on the gas pump when she put her usual $2 worth in the tank).

Oh yeah Beefy.....forgot to mention, only the so called civilized parts of Illinois have to do the test, mostly because they don't know how to shut off an engine when it's 75 degrees outside and tune ups cost a mint.