2002 CETA new engine

[Marine Wife]

Alrighty, my first post is going to be a long one!
My husband has a 2002 Collectors Edition Trans Am. The background on it is: we bought it used from the 2nd owner. The first owner had done some MAJOR modifications to it ie: Vortech supercharger, new cam, ported and polished heads, new suspension, BAER brake system, New headers and exhaust, ext.
The "check engine" light kept coming on so we hooked up the computer reader and got the codes off of it saying it was running rich in some of the banks. We took it to a local shop and he turned off the codes and was going to get us a Diablo tuner and tune the car for us. A month later and he doesn't remember us! So we took it to another shop that seemed to know a bit more about the LS1. ALL we wanted was to have the car tuned so it wouldn't run so rich and eat fuel! An outrageous amount of money later they say it is fixed! They did not even tune it! They said it was my spark plugs! so we take it home and it starts billowing smoke everywhere! I though at first it was just from the dipstick blowing out when they had it on the DYno, it got oil EVERYWHERE! We changed the oil and cleaned the engine off and the car is still smoking all over! We take it back to them and they tell us that it blew a cylinder! They want over $3000 just to take the engine out! Then they will send it to another shop who will most likely charge $7000 to rebuild it and then another $3000 to put it back in and $750 to tune it! As you may have realized from my name, my husband is a US Marine! Money is not in abundance with us, so that was out of the question. We brought it home and now my husband is deployed. I have taken it to the auto hobby shop here on base. I got in and did a compression test and indeed all compression is lost in #7. I hear cylinder #7 is a common problem in the LS1. I took the supercharger off and there is A LOT of oil in the intake side of it, I have pictures! So I took off the valve covers and checked that indeed all the valves are working and none are stuck! I am going to take the heads off next.
I am prepared to take the engine out because I know that is what needs to be done. My problem is this: what engine should I replace it with? Being a girl guys naturally think I don't know about cars! Partly true! I can wrench on things and fix things fairly well, and I have replaced an engine before in another car. What I do not know much about is performance and things like that. Just tell me what you want done and I will do it! I have been told that the engine needs to be replace because of wear on it. It has about 35,000 miles. So replace the engine because it would be best. so do I replace it with a new LS1 OR go with the supposedably better LS2? I would LOVE to put in the LS7 BUT again money is a big factor! Also if I put in a new engine will the mods that are with the car bolt onto a new engine?
So I have some pennies saved up to fix this thing for my husband and surprise him when he returns from deployment. I would like some suggestions as to what would be best to do. How can I make the car run best?
Thanks

[dougbfresh]

Well, www.corvetteforum.com is a GREAT reference for LSX engines. 35K on an LS1 is no big deal. There is a Forced Induction and tuning section on that forum since many Vette owners have turbo/super chargers. There are several good tuners on that forum and 1 may be close to you. The hassle with the F-body cars is that the engine has to come out the BOTTOM, cradle and all. Oil in the intake is NORMAL for the LS1, search for "catch can" on the Vette forum and you'll see, it's a bigger issue for forced induction setups. Get the cylinder head off and try to determine why you have no compression. Might be something simple like the head gasket. If the piston is intact, you might be OK.

By the way www.ls1.com is a good resource too as is www.fbody.com.

[justen]

Where the rod broke in # 7, I would check that and see if it really did any damage to the cylinder wall, I have had broken rods and honed out the cylinder back into shape when it's not bad condition, and put a new piston, rod and ring in, and works out just fine that way. Some lsx engines I've seen have 200,000 miles on them before the first overhaul.

[olddog]

My hat's off to you Marine wife.

Point 1. It is always the least surprises and hassle to replace an engine with the exact same one that was in it.

Try finding your engine here
http://autopartsearch.com/searchframe.cfm
Salvage engines can be risky too. I like to make sure I see and hear it run before they pull it out of the car. Ask about warrantees and get it in writing.

Point 2) Obviously who ever installed it didn't have it set up properly and the people you payed to destroy - I mean tune it - didn't know didly squat either. So you are still stuck with getting it properly tuned when you get the next engine. Look for some expert help with a widely known excellent reputation. There are too many wantabees out there acting like they know something.

You might want to leave off the supercharger and get the computer with the salvage engine and then you would have everything back to factory specs. You can alway install the performance stuff later after you have proven the car is healthy.

PS
Thank your husband for me, for being the man he is. The news media tries to hide it, but some of us out here appreciate our fine millitary men and women. And thanks to you for supporting him.

[danny]

welcome to the forum. i hope everything goes well for your project. i believe you have come to the right site for help. keep asking questions and i'm sure that you will get satisfactory results, and thank your husband for me too-semper fi.

[Marine Wife]

Well I have to wait a couple more weeks before I can get back to the car. Kids need to get back in school cause I can't take them to the shop. My next question is..... Should I just figure on pulling the engine out or should I actually take off the heads to check for something else? A blown gasket seems to be to good to be true! So should I just expect the worst and take it out or is it simple to take the heads off in the car?
If I have to change piston rings and seals I have to pull the engine anyway to get it done is that right?
Pretty much what would be the easiest thing to do? Pull the engine and work on it out of the car, or take the heads off and see if I can tell what is wrong?
Thanks for your help. I will check the sites posted above!



PS I will pass on the word and I am sure he will know that you appreciate his service just by the fact you are helping me fix his car! That will be the thing that makes his return happy! He already said that if I couldn't fix it to let him know so he could prepare for that, but with all the help from this board I should be able to do it and do it right! Thanks

[dougbfresh]

Take the head off 1st, if you can get to it. You don't "Pull" the engine in an F-body of that vintage, you drop the entire front out of the car=BIG job. Horsepower TV bid this on an LS1 Camaro a few shows ago, it had a spun rod bearing and they (of course) beefed it up while it was out. They used the lift to lift the body off the front subframe, leaving the subframe, engine and trans on the floor.

[justen]

Pull the head, expect anything. There's many possibilities.

[Raven02TA]

Originally Posted by dougbfresh

Take the head off 1st, if you can get to it. You don't "Pull" the engine in an F-body of that vintage, you drop the entire front out of the car=BIG job. Horsepower TV bid this on an LS1 Camaro a few shows ago, it had a spun rod bearing and they (of course) beefed it up while it was out. They used the lift to lift the body off the front subframe, leaving the subframe, engine and trans on the floor.

actually you can pull the engine out of the top of an fbody, i do it all the time. and takes less than 2 hours to do with a little help. and you dont have to pull the heads off to pull it out either.

Majorwife, any blown/sprayed LS1 car needs to be tuned with LS1edit or HPTuners program not a diablo handheld programmer. the programmer just doesnt have the ability to go into the Values of the PCM to change the air/fuel mixture properly. i personally would find a local machine shop that can rebuild your bottom end with upgraded parts ie: forged pistons, H-beam rods, stick with a stock crank you wont need to worry about that at all. then again it also matters if you have any kind of goals for the caris there a certain amount of HP you are trying to accomplish with it? keep in mind the more you put out of the engine you have a chance of breaking things IE: the tooth pick of a rear end thats in the car.

as dougbfresh said oil in the intake is normal on any ls1 engine. you can always put in a catch can. i can always give you a lot more advice on the matter if youd like i can shoot you a PM and ill give you my phone number and we can discuss the issues and try to work through them and i can make some recommendations and opinions on how to go about fixing the car.

the next question is where are you located? need to know so i can recommend some shops in your area?

Also for a lot of knowledgeable tech help see the guys on http://www.LS1tech.com

[dougbfresh]

How high in the air do you have to get the car for the engine to clear on the way out with the heads on? Seem to recall last time I saw an F-body with an LS-1 1/4 of the engine is back past the firewall.

[Raven02TA]

remove the radiator and condensor (if you have ac), and once you bring the engine high enough off the kmember to clear the pan bring it forward. it takes a little finaggling on your way up but it comes out fairly easily. just make sure the intake manifold is off the engine, take out the Cam sensor and the oil pressure sensor in the back (or break it and replace it later) and keep the arm of the engine hoist pretty close to the motor itself. other than that is a matter of keeping your eye on what you are doing and going slow.

the engine is not actually past the firewall, the winshield cowl is over it but not by much. to clear everything just make sure the valve covers and rockers/rods are out of the engine, and it should clear just fine. if you have the time and a 3 jaw gear puller you will also want to pull the crank pulley of the motor first. this will give you a couple more inches of clearence

the most trouble you will have is getting the power steering pump off the passenger head. just takes some patience. you'll want to pull the only visible bolts off of the assemble. and on the back of the resevior there is a bolt you have to turn out slowely while moving the pump forward. (if you look behind the pump you will see what i mean) and there is another bolt on the passenger side of the pump. you have to work the two bolts out a couple of threads at a time until the pump comes off. OR you can get a PS pulley puller and remove the pulley and pull the pump off via the two bolts behind the pulley itself and it comes right off.

[Saltmine]

I'm going to have to agree with Doug on this one.

The "F" body was DESIGNED to have the powerplant removed and installed out the bottom.

Yes, it's entirely possible to remove the engine from the top, but, the reason it was designed to come out the bottom was to keep the tech from bending pipes, and lines, tearing ground wires off and punching holes in the HVAC box.

The engine can be removed out the bottom without opening up the A/C system, too. Which is a consideration if you don't have proper refrigerant recovery equipment.

We used to see about one Camaro a month dragged into the dealer, with the engine half-torn out the top. It usually cost the owner of the car plenty to set it right.

My younger brother, who is a service manager of a West Coast Chevrolet dealer, has actually fired at least two techs who he caught attempting to pull an "F" body engine "the old way". Of course, he also fired a tech for trying to pull the engine out of a 2000 Chevy Impala out the top (the old way)

Either do it right, or don't do it at all...

[dougbfresh]

Looked like he had to dismantle most of the car and the engine to get it out the top and open the air conditioning system-doesn't seem like a shortcut to me.

[Saltmine]

Yeah, Doug. When you drop one out the bottom, you take four bolts out of the A/C compressor and swing it to one side.

My brother's kid (who works at a Corvette Specialty Shop) can pull the engine out of a Corvette (the same way) replace all of the rings, and reinstall it. Then fire it up and take it for a road test, all in one day.

[justen]

easiest way for me is to drop the tranny and engine all at once. but thats using a lift too.
my neighbor dropped his engine without a lift, it was pretty interesting listening to him swear and yell the car has to go higher lol. Eventually he had someone with a bobcat come over and lift the front end high enough the back bumper was almost touching the pavement.